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Talk:Developing Arts
Any ideas how you get beyond Swift/Peerless upgrades (eg Boxing the Compass or Ballestra)? :I'm not sure what you mean, from what i read: Boxing the Compass = Peerless Four Winds, Ballestra = Peerless Fleche. There's nothing beyond that. Then again, i didn't test these myself so when i do i'll add that to the page if it's not that simple. Drake178 07:26, 25 June 2009 (UTC) :That's exactly what they are, swift or peerless by another name. Boxing the Compass and Rose of the Winds are learnt the exact same way that Swift and Peerless are learnt. Same goes for Double Bore (Swift Twin Gimlet), and any others. I've learnt those the same way I learnt Swift or Peerless with any character. IE. Torgal with Halphas Dominus for Quad Wield arts will learn, Swift Quad Slice V, Rose of the Winds V, Julienne V, Swift Quadrille V. Mikeyakame 07:45, 25 June 2009 (UTC) Mystic Arts I did some very basic testing of the mystic art development, but i think starting the test midgame with 4 art trees already somewhat developed and only two new ones will not be as accurate as i'd like it to be, so i'll wait for a new game for a real test. Here's what this first test yielded: * Both Poison Gas and Orphic Ward give a mystic chance after 4 uses (Tier I both). This probably extrapolates to all Rank C Tier I Mystic Arts. These 4 uses are enough to upgrade them to Tier II in both cases. * If not upgraded with this mystic chance they give another after 4 more uses. * If still not upgraded then, they give yet another after 4 more, i assume this continues until they are eventually upgraded. * Going a tier higher, Poison Gas II gives the chance after 9 uses. * There is only one mystic chance per battle, even if multiple arts would trigger one. * Any art with enough uses to learn/upgrade will show up in the mystic chance, not just the one triggering it. * Any art available for learning/upgrading in a mystic chance will have their learning counters reset to 0. This is a separate counter, not the one keeping track of the total uses of the art. Example: you don't learn Poison Gas II on the mystic chance you get after 4 uses. You use it 3 more times, get another mystic chance with another spell and still don't learn PG II (although it will show up as learnable). You now need to use it 4 times again to get a mystic chance, rather than 1 more time. * Counters for arts that do not appear for learning/upgrading are not reset. Example: you use PG 3 times, then get a mystic chance with something else (PG II does not appear), which you learn. After one more use of PG you will get a mystic chance. Preliminary theory goes something like this: * Each tier of each Rank has a Mystic Chance Number assosicated with it (4 for Rank C Tier I, 9 for Rank C Tier II). * Each art keeps track of it's own mystic chance counter, this is reset to 0 whenever the art shows up in a mystic chance, regardless of whether it's learned or not. Whenever this counter reaches the Mystic Chance Number, a mystic chance occurs. * Every art with sufficient usage to upgrade to the next tier, and every art in a tree with sufficient uses to learn the next Rank will show up in a mystic chance. * If there are no arts that match these criteria (ie learning mystic arts by using Tier V arts only), a random art will be chosen. This might actually be based on number of uses of any other art (meaning the one with the highest counter will show up first), but if there are no uses on any of them (or all of them are tier V) there must be a random element. Or otherwise it's a set order that the code goes through. Obviously if there's nothing to learn there will be no mystic chance (i doubt you'd get new art trees this way). * NPCs will favor higher Rank over higher Tier when faced with a choice between the two. There are still plenty of holes to cover here, remember this was only a very basic test. It might work completely differently. Drake178 18:51, 30 June 2009 (UTC) Uses of Combat Arts Hey mate. I updated Tier II -> III Rank S Combat Art usage count. Usage is 50 times (200XP Rank S Counter, 4XP / use) to change II -> III. Mikeyakame 08:04, 10 July 2009 (UTC) :That was just a quick run-through test result, not surprised it wasn't all that accurate (didn't double-check it). Now that i know a bit more about the xp mechanics i have to say that while i double-checked all the other numbers (and triple and quadruple-checked some of them), they may still be slightly off. On a side note, you might as well just edit your observation into the article rather than put a note below :P When we've thoroughly tested the xp mechanics i'll likely rework this article. It might also be a good idea to put the xp numbers straight into the table too, that's how it will end anyway. Drake178 09:07, 10 July 2009 (UTC) Combat Arts XP Mechanics I'm moving this here because it's getting ugly now. Once we know everything i'll format it and put it back into the article. For you it doesn't matter where you edit it, but for the reader it just confuses everything. Drake178 09:14, 11 July 2009 (UTC) NB - Required/Given XP: *1 x Select Combat Art = 4XP to Specific Combat Art Counter & 2XP to Weapon Specific Counter *1 x Select/Perform Combat Art = 4XP to Specific Combat Art Count & 4XP to Weapon Specific Counter ie. Select Dragon's Flight & Perform Attack with Mace Weapon * Dragon's Flight XP += 4XP * Mace XP += 4XP ie. Select Dragon's Flight & Don't Perform Attack with Mace Weapon * Dragon's Flight XP += 4XP * Mace XP += 2XP Also if you're only keeping track of the end xp (ie using my table without any modification) you can't tell the whole story. Here is how what you wrote down should look like (although i'd think it's +2 to everything for the first step and another +2 for the second, you tested it so it must be this way, i'm fairly sure though that it's +2/+2 to the wield style as well): * Selecting the Combat Art and starting the turn: +4xp to the combat art, +2xp to the weapon type, +2xp to the wield style at the start of the turn * Actually Performing the Combat Art: +2xp to the weapon type, +2xp to the weild style used (can be different from the previous) However at the end of the battle you'll only see the total, since you're looking at ooc (out-of-combat) xp only and the difference can only be seen in the battle xp (in my tables it's +4 to the final offsets of the xp pointers). Drake178 09:23, 11 July 2009 (UTC) :Yep sorry wasn't paying attention to Wield Style, but you are correct with the 2/2 split for wield style as well. Forgot to add that! Mikeyakame 09:37, 11 July 2009 (UTC) :On the other hand I'm slowly getting towards Ordainer I think! :*Sword = 1096XP, Katana = 280XP, Axe = 82XP, Mace = 156XP :*Spear = 1784XP, Staff = 10XP :Still probably a decent way away but this is got to be the most ridiculous feat for a Commander to change class to, damn Wards Focus. I've had to block all my mystic arts and item arts just to get Combat Arts to show up once every couple of turns! Mikeyakame 09:41, 11 July 2009 (UTC) What do you mean by Wards Focus? I don't think there is such a thing. Then again, i never really had multi-art mystic focus characters (I see you added that to the Commander page as well). The ones i did have never distinguished between mystic art and mystic art, it was random just like everything else. The only reason i saw more of one school was because i had more arts learned in it. And obviously the reason why i saw more mystic arts commands was the mystic focus. Also your highest ranking art appears more than anything else, i assume that's even worse for wards because it has several commands that use mainly wards if you don't have potions (Offensive/Defensive support). All in all, i doubt there is a school specific mystic focus. I also doubt Commander has any focus at all, but i'll get back to that later. If you want to find out, enable and learn potions to the max (and get 100 of each component), if half of your offensive/defensive support commands get replaced by potions then Commander has no focus whatsoever. Drake178 10:01, 11 July 2009 (UTC) :Hmm with Commander I get Protection/Orphic Ward/Band of Champions/Decoy/Cheer on almost every union every turn when enabled. Otherwise if I disable all but protection, they are replaced with blank normal "Attack" when they'd otherwise be used, ie. Band of Champions V used with Combat Arts normally. That appears to be Wards Focus to me, even with high shards and psionics Wards always appear instead of others. My highest would be Psionics or Wards, but Wards is generally the chosen art to use. Mikeyakame 10:39, 11 July 2009 (UTC) ::I'll check it out when i get to the commander class, but my hunch is that you just have a really bad luck with the rng. If it was any kind of focus though, you'd see the commands related to that focus appear more often (ie Attack with Combat Arts, Attack with Mystic Arts). Getting Band of Champions V in an Attack with Combat Arts chain is something entirely different. What command chains are you seeing? Drake178 10:55, 11 July 2009 (UTC) :For a good example of what I mean take note of the Give It All You Got command chain. That is focus specific if the class has a specific focus. All Combat Art Focus will have a combat art here, all item Art Focus will use an Item Art, and all Mystic Art focus will use a mystic art. :Command chains I get commonly in Deadlock (this is only when it matters really for focus specific command chains) are Attack With Mystic Arts (blank with all offensive mystic disabled), Lower Their Morale (Mixed Message III), Give Defensive Support (Protection/Orphic Ward/Band of Champions), Lay Down Cover (Band Of Champions/Support), and when I have all Wards currently active on the union and no damage I will get Attack with Combat Arts!!! HAH!! Crazy aye. It's fine when there are 4+ enemy unions because to get Combat Art attacks I just break deadlock and attack a union that gives me it. If I break deadlock the other unions will be Attack with Mystic Arts/Support Your Friends (Cheer/Band of Champions)/Help Em Out (Protection/Orphic Ward)/Attack/Give Defensive Support/Hurry and Heal em or otherwise Unique Arts/Weapon Arts. In a Finish em with Weapon Arts command chain Rush will usually get Attack command in deadlock or out of deadlock usually highest level Combat Art. Tell me what your take on these command chains is. My take is that Commander has Mystic Focus at the least, and Wards Focus (if it exists) otherwise Recovery Focus perhaps. Mikeyakame 11:18, 11 July 2009 (UTC) :Check your email, mailed current save you can have a play with. Mikeyakame 11:25, 11 July 2009 (UTC) ::Well since i have to go to sleep now i'll check the mail after work tomorrow, but one thing i can say right away: Give it All you Got! is not focus specific. It's class type specific. Combat classes (regardless of physical focus) will get combat arts, Mystic classes (regardless of mystic focus) will get mystic arts in this chain. Gladiator (no focus) will get combat arts, Sorcerer (Recovery focus) will get mystic arts. Drake178 11:47, 11 July 2009 (UTC) I have Nightbloom (nimble) and Tataraichi (mighty) equiped, and my acala's wrath upgraded to swift. :Interesting find, thank you. I'll test it out later and remove the DW note for now until i find out how that happens. Drake178 08:14, 15 August 2009 (UTC) A/SS Weapon Specific Combat Art XP *Rank A Specific Combat Art learnt at 980XP in specific weapon XP counter equipped. IE. Learn Moonset (Rank A Specific Art) with any Katana when Katana XP = 980. :That's way off. I just learned Cross Slice by setting it to 608 after learning Blue Streak at 608 One-handed. It's interesting to see though, my XBOX test result suggests 440 wield xp for a Rank A generic art and 400 weapon xp for a weapon specific one. Both of our results are way higher than that. I'll keep looking. Drake178 07:26, 14 July 2009 (UTC) : That is weapon specific XP, ie. Katana Specific counter = 980XP to learn first Katana specific art. I don't have the wield style XP unfortunately since mine is 4500ish. I'll need to do new game with fresh counters to figure that component out. I previously came up with ~1000XP so I wasn't far off, this time I tracked combat art hit/misses and extrapolated it back to check the XP at the counter vs my usage. I'll figure out the XP for Rank SS specific art next since I just broke the magical 400 chains :D. Mikeyakame 08:20, 14 July 2009 (UTC) That's exactly what i meant. I put 608 into the Sword XP and learned Cross Slice (Rank A Sword Specific) right away. And the XBOX test resulted in 100 combat art uses to learn it, which translates into 400 xp. Anyway, there is no hit/miss to extrapolate back, a dodged combat art gives the same xp as one that hits. Unless you mean command chained vs. performed that is. Are you looking at the counters at the ends of 20-turn battles? Guess i should have included battle XP in that last table :P Drake178 08:50, 14 July 2009 (UTC) :yep thats exactly what i'm doing. making rough notes of commands performed, taking XP pre battle and XP post battle, taking difference dividing up hit/miss and uses, and checking when I remember combat art counter for each to double check my numbers match. I should make note of wield style XP too im using, maybe there is a penalty for very high XP in any of them. Currently: :*PG = 4879XP (wouldn't have been far from this when I recorded XP to learn Rank A wpn art.) :*2H = 4400XP :When you are checking values, sample more than 1 case. Say if you test at 1000XP wield, n XP specific, then do 2000XP wield, 3000XP wield, until 5K limit and see at which point you don't learn the art anymore if that's the case. When you are figuring out unknown values always best to take a few sample points with a few possible number sets, real world doesn't play out like a text book and there is always factors which can screw up perfect results taken in a perfect experiment. These are good but they don't represent randomness or spread of values actually playing the game would raise XP counters to and more importantly, most people have spreads of usage without anything solid. Once you explain how you got that 17000000h offset to me I'll start playing with Effects as this is going to earn me a free vacation to the nuthouse! Mikeyakame 09:01, 14 July 2009 (UTC) ::That's an easy question, i disassembled the code :D Drake178 09:25, 14 July 2009 (UTC) :If you want reconstructed assembly code for the .exe I can throw you the 500+mb database that has so far been analyzed from the disassembler! I ran it for 5 or 6hrs over night and was still going when I woke, so I saved it and I'll do it again tonight! It'll be heaven and hell for you at the same time :D Well disassembling is something, but 17000000h is it static? and I'll assume it's where the reference tables for all underlying wpn/cls/acc/eff/skill etc are allocated in memory? If so is it static and does it have a relationship to the addr offset on first load upon process attachment to tlr.exe? If so I can figure out the rest, I just need to know the rules behind how you determined it etc. Mikeyakame 09:33, 14 July 2009 (UTC) :*2H = 4741XP, Staff = 983XP, Just learnt Crush (Rank A Staff) in battle summary after last use. So it seems at least when high end of wield XP limits ~980-982XP is requirement to learn Rank A Art. Mikeyakame 09:58, 14 July 2009 (UTC) Your explanation of wield-weapon correlation is pretty much the only thing i can think of, ie Rank A weapon type xp requirement is calculated from the wield style xps. If that is true it's probably also true for weapon arts. Drake178 10:26, 14 July 2009 (UTC) :how's this for data :D *1H XP = 652, Axe XP = 738, Learnt Blue Streak + Cross Slice + Crushing Hit + Helm Split at end of the battle with those XP values. I would say with 100% accuracy that Wield Style XP is one half of the XP required for Weapon Specific Combat Arts, the other half being Weapon XP. so lets say maybe that: :If(Wield_Style_XP / n) > 1000); n = (roundup)WieldStyle_XP/1000; if (n >= 1) { Weapon_XP_RankA = Wield_style_XP / n } else { Weapon_XP_RankA = min_Wield_Style_XP = ~650XP }; n = 5 perhaps or similar kind of loop. That's just an imaginary formula but I think it is similar in determining the thresholds for learning based on experience, higher exp u have the higher the penalty for learning specific combat arts? Mikeyakame 11:40, 14 July 2009 (UTC) :Still haven't learnt PG Rank A art yet, at ~900XP in weapon counter. If it takes ~980XP to learn with PG then I feel confident giving some hard guidelines to learning combat arts at least. Weapon Arts is a whole diff ballgame.Mikeyakame 12:03, 14 July 2009 (UTC) ::Learnt Rank A PG Art @ 982XP next turn changed to Cyclone. Seems there is a high and low wield style XP. Mikeyakame 12:16, 14 July 2009 (UTC) :PG = 5000XP, Rank SS Combat Art @ ~ 2500XP, Snowblind @ ~2500XP. Demonsblow @ ~1600XP. Mikeyakame 13:29, 14 July 2009 (UTC) I found a slight problem for you. I just learned Helm Split, Reverse Delta, and Crushing Hit in a battle summary with 0 xp in all of those weapon types while messing with the classes. I was setting the weapon type levels to max. That means the weapon specific art learning is skill level based rather than xp based, and while the skill level is calculated from the xp i don't know how exactly that works. The One-Handed XP is 695, but i'm sure the 608 where i learned Blue Streak would have sufficed. This is also very surprising because it doesn't work for the wield styles, my One-Handed level was frozen at -1 (not learned) at the time, and setting it to 32 (max) doesn't learn the rank SS art (never did). One reasonable explanation i can come up with is that rather than ckecking the wield style xp or level the game only checks for the rank A generic art to see if you qualify in wield style, and then weapon type skill level to see if you qualify on weapon type side. This might also be the missing piece in your puzzle, the game may do a separate check when you learn the rank A generic art, and that check might have a lower weapon type skill requirement. Drake178 13:56, 14 July 2009 (UTC) Mystic Chance Displayed in Battle? I have noticed that after using a mystic art, characters will sometimes get a little white swoosh/swirl beneath their feet, which has the same graphical appearance as Support. So far I have not kept a close eye on these little swoosh/swirls, but I get the feeling that they may represent which character actually passed their mystic chance roll. Is this in fact the case? Vyx 21:08, May 15, 2010 (UTC) : I think it is. While it's not 100% for them learning a new MA, it does seem to mean that they've gotten enough EXP to either learn a new MA, or at least level one up. One of the JP guides had a little blurb on it, and that's what my observations lead me to believe. Although, they randomly have the splash when they use a normal attack at times. Don't know what's up with that... Zephyr135 21:50, May 15, 2010 (UTC) ::It might be an indication of any kind of levelup, but i have no idea i never even noticed it. Drake178 21:56, May 15, 2010 (UTC) :::I have not seen this occur on normal attacks yet, but then again I only just started to keep an eye on this. I'll try to take note of who gets the effect during battle and see if it correlates with any level ups afterwards. This could take a while since the camera angle will sometimes obscure characters, which could end up giving me some false negatives. Vyx 23:14, May 15, 2010 (UTC) :::I just noticed that there is a distinct sound effect, a little swoosh sound, that accompanies the graphical effect here. I have been able to correlate this effect to learning a new mystic art in a couple smaller battles, but I am still having trouble keeping track of the effect in larger battles, mainly because the camera keeps zooming away or getting obscured by other characters on the field. The sound effect has helped, but it can be hard to catch right after a similarily sounding mystic art. I have yet to see this effect be triggered from anything but mystic arts, but I'll keep watching for a bit longer. Vyx 21:44, May 16, 2010 (UTC) :::I can now confirm that this graphical and sound effect can occur after a character uses any type of art. It is simply more common with mystic arts because it almost certainly gets triggered by mystic chances too. Whenever I do notice this effect with a non-mystic art however, the affected character is guaranteed to learn a new skill at the battle report screen. So this effect appears to indicate that a character will earn a skill up after the battle, or for the case of mystic chance, at least the oppurtunity to do so. Though I have yet to observe this effect occuring after a plain normal attack, I suspect it is possible in that case too if it is the result of a wield style leveling up, which may in turn unlock a combat art. Now if I could just get a good screenshot of this happening... Vyx 08:22, May 19, 2010 (UTC) :::right|thumbnailNew info now, and hopefully with the proper lingo too. I have observed three seperate instances of this splash effect occuring after normal attacks, and they could be duplicated by reloading to a save immediately before that battle. There has been no explicit leveling of any arts after a normal attack splashes, but this is probably due to it being a Wield Style level up. Overall, I think this splash effect reflects the occurance of a mystic chance, or the leveling of any other skill or art that is not immediately upgraded in battle. I have not been able to get good screenshots of normal attack splashes because the camera pans away too quickly, but here is a mystic chance splash from Paris. It occured right after he cast Refresh, and luckily the camera moved to a nice angle for me to hit print screen in time. Vyx 10:36, May 23, 2010 (UTC) ::::Most Mystic arts spells will generate a flash at the feet of the caster. It's not an indicator of any special event. Sorry. Torinir 03:57, July 21, 2010 (UTC) ::::This splash is distinct from the normal graphical effects of spell casting. Unless normal spell casting also randomly generates different graphics, then there should be no mistake here. Vyx 15:15, July 23, 2010 (UTC) learning different attributes then what your weapon has I have been training Caedmon since the very beginning and I know he has been training all his weapons arts with mighty/peerless. He has the buer dominus so I know his weapon is still giving him mighty. However recently I have been using the rush skill grind for my other generals so they could max out on their combat skills. All game I was training mystic arts to become a warlock but now I wanted my combat people to get better. I noticed that all the combat arts in quad and dual power grip were getting the nimble/swift attribute and then the worst thing happened...he went from knowing mighty scatered petals V to regular scattered petals V. It seems the rush skill grind trick is making him unlearn the mighty stuff for the nimble. Its different for everyone because its making my torgal know mighyty which is good but not all my generals are benefiting. Any ideas why this is happening? Espinadoboko 19:35, May 27, 2010 (UTC) :I never play a 360 ver but you should try using him in real battle, let he use combat skill and he will modify arts to mighty from his weapon again. I'm using him with rush so that the skill grind won't kill his mighty arts but/I'm just confused by its making him learn swift arts. Maybe its because the original weapons he comes with gives him swift. Espinadoboko 19:35, May 27, 2010 (UTC) I looked at some others generals in terms of what they are learning, what weapon they have and what they started out with and nothing. Then I remembered I screwed up early and made caedmon balance focus when he asked me once. And then it hit me. Everyone that's combat focused is learning mighty/peerless. Everyone else balance or mystic is learning nimble/swift. Lesson learned people, another reason not to screw up when they ask you about what focus they want Espinadoboko 19:44, May 27, 2010 (UTC) :I don't think it's as simple as that. Drake178 00:01, May 30, 2010 (UTC) I can't think of anything else. Caedmon used to have peerless arts that are now mighty, and mighty arts that are blank. He uses nothing but combat arts and his weapon gives mighty/peerless. He only started unlearning when I skill grinded with rush. Something has to be connected Espinadoboko 16:35, June 4, 2010 (UTC) :For what it's worth, Caedmon's starting weapon has a technique/speed modifier, and it will eventually be replaced with one that has a power/strength modifier. Maybe that is what you have observed instead? Vyx 22:15, June 4, 2010 (UTC) ::its either that or because I made him balance focus.Espinadoboko 02:25, June 5, 2010 (UTC) :::It's all about the weapons used. Each weapon has its own modifier, and those modifiers will determine whether the user moves toward Swift or Peerless arts. As a good example, the Ninja Katana's modifier is Technique (Nimble > Swift), however if you upgrade it to the Tataraichi, it'll change to Power (Mighty > Peerless) and your combat arts will start shifting toward the Power track. As a side note, most of the top end weapons in each weapon class are Power weapons anyway. Torinir 13:31, July 22, 2010 (UTC) Question about Power vs Technique with Dual Wield skills and mixed weapons Trying to upgrade Rush's Ninja Katanas to the Tataraichi tree, and I'm curious if the Main Hand weapon's preference dominates the skills or if both equally influence it? I know I only have the materials for one upgrade and it's going to be some time before I can get both weapons into the Tataraichi tree, I'm just curious if his skills will move from Swift toward Peerless, if they'll stay static or drop to the neutral stance when using mixed (Power/Technique) katanas? Torinir 14:54, July 20, 2010 (UTC) :They should stay static with mixed weapons. I have not personally used mixed weapons for any extended duration, but that seems to be the conclusion reached by several other users in various talk pages. Vyx 15:20, July 23, 2010 (UTC) ::Ended up investigating this after a long while (mostly because I don't mix anything). Turns out that if you mix Speed/Power modifiers, if it's Speed in the main hand, then you still earn full Speed EXP. If it's Power in the main hand, then it's completely cancelled out. It makes no sense whatsoever, but even amping up the EXP gains through a higher Chain did nothing. If both are Speed, double EXP. If both are Power, only 100% EXP. If it's mixing different WT, then it's only the main hand WT that contributes to WT EXP gained. However, if you throw in the Rubber Soul and/or Ragna-rock, then you can start gaining WT EXP from the offhand as well. It's almost like the game is telling the players to use Speed modifiers when DWing... Zephyr 06:31, May 24, 2011 (UTC) You get off hand WT exp on xbox without growth boost equipment. EXP is the same as main hand. I think if one weapon is speed and one power you will not get a modifier. Doesn't matter whats in main hand. Just not sure about double exp if 2x speed as I avoid Nimble/Swift.--Jay222 14:36, June 14, 2011 (UTC) :It's not x2 Speed on the X360. Rush sparked Nimble Resonance Edge, then right after sparked Nimble Resonance Edge II.. It takes almost the same amount of EXP to add the modifier as it does to go from Rank A I to Rank A II. And those observations above are from the PC version. I believe both are PC players. The offhand gains would explain why Emmy sparked Moulinet earlier than I expected as she should start with Sword 7. Zephyr 15:35, June 14, 2011 (UTC) I know those were for PC, which is why I posted for xbox. Nice to have how it works for both.--Jay222 16:11, June 14, 2011 (UTC) :I guess it's another page that requires a little reworking. This is starting to get annoying. Zephyr 01:52, June 15, 2011 (UTC) Confused So can anyone explain this is more simple english? Mystic arts are only upgraded through chance once you have enough exp? Is the article made to explain or further complicate? First of all I appreciate the huge effort made to make this wiki, but then again as a user, I can't make much sense of the way it explains this section when it could have been written in a MUCH simpler way! For example at the first paragraph under "Basics": Why can't it just directly state that half the gained EXP is when the command is selected and the other half is when the character executes the command? Heck I don't even know if that second 1/2 of EXP is gained if the character misses or is blocked. Another example is in that same paragraph mentions:"Most Arts and some other actions (like regular attacks) have one or more skills associated with them which will increase when the Arts are used. Whenever a battle starts, skills are increased based on..". I understand what an art is (can be a combat art like knee splitter, can be a ward like protect etc.), but what is a skill actually? I'm sure the arts upgrade system isn't simple, but the WAY its explanation was written isn't making it any easier to understand either. And I'm sure there are ways to improve it and make it easier on the eye.--Disappointed 03:19, November 27, 2014 (UTC) : Execution is just that; it doesn't matter if the unit actually hits anything. It only matters when levelling equipment. All that's needed is for their turn to pop up and they get the EXP. The language within the game is a little bit muddy at times, and it doesn't help matters much when most players use Skill and Art interchangeably while the game makes a distinction between them (Skills contain Arts, Arts can contribute EXP to more than 1 Skill (CAs), etc). : The upgrade system for CAs and IAs is stupidly simple. Just get the EXP. It's the MAs that are a little bit more involved since you need to trigger the Mystic Chance. Zephyr (talk) 04:48, November 27, 2014 (UTC) Penalty for having too many Arts? Hi, I was wondering whether knowing more arts categories means that you will need more EXP to develop the same art into a higher tier; For example, if Rush wanted to develop Knee splitter to Knee Splitter II and this required 50 EXP, would it require more than 50 EXP if Rush knew more arts already (ex: Psionics, Herbs, Traps, etc) This is part of a bigger question, are there ANY drawbacks to letting all the leaders learn every possible art they can? Your help is appreciated : Nope. The amount of EXP required doesn't change based on the number of arts and skills the unit knows. There are drawbacks if playing on the X360 since you can't control and filter out what you don't want units to do. On the PC, there aren't any drawbacks other than their default starting skill levels that might interfere with class changes. It probably feels like the arts require more EXP because you're not focusing development on a particular art. Training multiple arts at the same time does give the impression that development feels slower, especially if the EXP is spread across multiple skills. Zephyr (talk) 19:42, November 30, 2014 (UTC) Have Art requirements posted in more places? I think it would be a lot easier on the reader if requirements for specific arts were posted on their own page as well. And not only on the Developing Arts page. For instance, if I want to learn how to acquire Snowpetal I would type in Snowpetal in the search field. But on the Snowpetal page there are missing requirements for how to learn it. It took me a long while to figure out that I had to look for requirements elsewhere. It is not intuitive. Actually, same goes for other topics as well. For instance I think Weapon Rank is missing on weapon specific pages? Like katana. --Frendh (talk) : Been trying to find some time to edit templates to add some more info since it should show the requirements and linking back to the Developing Arts page for further explanation. The X360 version currently has my attention since the quirks I'm finding right now are a little more interesting... Plus game dev. : It's not "Weapon Rank", but rather "Equipment Rank". There's another thing that should be added: Focus Type. I think the reason why those bits weren't added were because no one really knew what they were (or really wouldn't care because they just look at stats). It wasn't until recently after getting a few samples here and there that there was an explanation as to why certain units refused to request entire lines of equipment. Of course, that also means editing every single unit's page to reflect whether or not they can potentially request certain pieces of equipment. Zephyr (talk) 16:59, January 8, 2015 (UTC) :: Yeah, I should have figured out it was simply a time issue. Well, if I notice the template has empty fields for equipment rank and whatnot I will start copying numbers little by little.--Frendh (talk) 21:11, January 8, 2015 (UTC)